"One Question" with Andre Perry

How can learning from thriving communities help everyone flourish?

American cities sit at the intersection of immense opportunity and deep inequality — much of it traceable to decisions made generations ago that are still shaping who builds wealth, and who doesn't.

Andre Perry — Director of the Center for Community Uplift and senior fellow at the Brookings Institution — joins IAJS Faculty Director Tomás Jiménez in this episode of One Question. Together, they explore what it means to take stock of multiple truths about racial inequality and what it requires of government, financial institutions, universities, and communities to build the conditions for everyone to thrive.

Perry is a researcher, author, and commentator whose work has reframed how America understands wealth, race, and cities. His groundbreaking research on asset devaluation in Black neighborhoods — showing that Black-owned homes are underpriced by 23%, amounting to $156 billion in lost equity nationwide — has shaped policy debates at the highest levels of government. He is also the author of Know Your Price and Black Power Scorecard, a regular contributor to MSNBC, and a professor of practice of economics at Washington University in St. Louis.

One Question is the Institute for Advancing Just Societies’ premier podcast engaging thought leaders worldwide in questions of accelerating justice.

Stream the full episode now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Full transcript below.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: This conversation explores what it means to take stock of multiple truths about racial inequality and what it requires of government, financial institutions, universities, and communities to build the conditions for everyone to thrive. In other words, how can we learn from what’s working in thriving communities to build replicable models so we can help everyone flourish?

Hi, everyone. This is One Question, a podcast brought to you by Stanford University’s Institute for Advancing Just Societies, where we explore big questions about what it takes for us to live together in a world where diversity is a fact of life. My name is Tomás Jiménez, and I’m the faculty director of IAJS, which drives solutions-focused research and partnerships for racial and ethnic justice.

Today, we’re joined by Andre Perry—a researcher, author, and commentator whose work has reframed how America understands wealth, race, and cities. He is also a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, where he serves as director of the Center for Community Uplift. Thank you for being here, Andre.

ANDRE PERRY: Tomás, it’s a pleasure.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: Likewise—thanks so much for doing this. I’m going to start with the one question guiding our conversation today: how can we learn from what’s working in thriving communities to build replicable models so that we can help everyone flourish? I know this is something you’ve examined in great detail, so I wonder if we can start there.

ANDRE PERRY: There are reasons why I focus on what’s working versus what you often see in disparity research—particularly when examining differences between races. When you focus only on disparities, you can mask very real progress or growth, especially at the local level. So I’m constantly looking at what’s working as a model for my research.

Most people know me through my work on housing devaluation, where we found that homes in Black neighborhoods are underpriced by 23%—about $48,000 per home. Cumulatively, that’s about $156 billion in lost equity in Black communities. That amount could have financed more than 8 million new businesses, paid for more than 8 million four-year degrees, replaced the pipes in Flint thousands of times over, or covered nearly all of the damage from Hurricane Katrina. It’s a massive number.

That’s why I often say there’s nothing wrong with Black people that ending racism can’t solve. When things go wrong in Black communities, we tend to blame people—their choices—instead of examining how wealth and opportunity are extracted through policy and practice every single day.

My goal is to move away from blaming people and toward changing policy. Policy reflects our values and can scale those values. When you change policy, you change neighborhood conditions, and ultimately outcomes. The reality is that assets in Black communities are far more valuable than they are priced—and that reflects a broader truth: Black people are more valuable than they are priced. That’s why it’s core to my work to look at what’s working. If we don’t acknowledge real progress, we’re also devaluing the people creating that progress.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: This connects to a larger framework you’ve used in your work—what I might call a “bright spots” approach. And I want to dig into that, because it’s not how we’re typically taught to think about race and ethnicity. The dominant framework is comparison between groups. What does it do for us when we focus not just on disparities, but on progress—on people thriving?

ANDRE PERRY: It reminds people that individuals aren’t broken—our policies are. There’s been a long-standing narrative that communities of color are somehow deficient or need to “catch up” to white communities. I reject that framing. Instead, I see valuable assets, innovative ideas, and people doing meaningful work. You also see cooperation across racial lines happening all over the country. This isn’t about putting on rose-colored glasses—it’s about acknowledging measurable progress. But we’ve developed a habit of focusing on what’s perceived as broken, and that often ends up meaning people.

When we published our devaluation research, some in the appraisal community responded defensively, saying, “I’m not racist.” But the point isn’t to assign individual blame—it’s to examine systems that limit opportunity for everyone. There’s also an economic case for addressing these issues. When Black communities are deprived of wealth, municipalities lose tax revenue, regions lose innovation, and overall economic potential declines. Everyone loses. And importantly, when those at the lowest levels of wealth begin to thrive, it lifts outcomes for everyone. Investment in one group doesn’t come at the expense of another.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: Some might argue that comparing groups is still important for understanding inequality. Why move away from that approach?

ANDRE PERRY: Comparisons between groups can be useful, but we over-rely on them. In my book Black Power Scorecard, for example, we looked at life expectancy—not by comparing Black people to other groups, but by comparing Black people to Black people across regions. That within-group analysis reveals differences in local conditions that either support or limit thriving. It shows that populations are not monolithic. There’s a lot to learn when you look at variation within a group, especially across cities and regions. If you’re looking for solutions, you often find them by examining where progress is happening within a group—not just by comparing across groups.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: That resonates with my own work. When we rely on averages, we flatten entire populations. But when we look at distribution, we see complexity. You chose life expectancy as a measure. What did that reveal?

ANDRE PERRY: Life expectancy reflects the sum of our social, political, and economic conditions. When people have the resources and environments they need, they live longer. When we analyzed this geographically, we saw dramatic variation. In some places, Black life expectancy is in the mid-80s. In others, it’s closer to 65. That raises important questions: if racism is a constant, why are outcomes so different across places? The answer lies in local institutions—banks, schools, hospitals, community organizations—and how they function. Every place has its own mix of strengths and weaknesses. You can’t paint any city with a broad brush. Looking at nuance reveals the conditions that support thriving.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: So this is really about place—about what neighborhoods and cities do for people.

ANDRE PERRY: Exactly. Many of the factors that influence life expectancy operate at the neighborhood level. That’s where quality of life is shaped. For me, the focus is less on abstract wealth measures and more on thriving. How are people actually doing? Neighborhoods are where policy meets reality. You can have strong federal policy, but if implementation on the ground is weak—or shaped by bias—you’ll see poor outcomes. That’s why I focus on neighborhoods. That’s where the action is.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: Can you take us inside a place that’s doing this well?

ANDRE PERRY: One standout example is the DC, Maryland, Virginia area—the DMV. If there’s a “Wakanda” in the U.S., that’s it. There’s strong business development, high rates of homeownership, and robust social networks. Black entrepreneurs don’t just start businesses—they build firms that employ others. That’s a powerful shift. There’s also a strong culture of civic engagement. When something isn’t working, communities organize and respond. That grassroots energy—often led by people without elite credentials—is incredibly impactful. That social capital drives policy and economic change.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: That speaks to the idea that when opportunity isn’t distributed equitably, we’re leaving talent and potential on the table—and that harms everyone.

ANDRE PERRY: Absolutely. And beyond economics, there’s a moral dimension. When people are devalued, their dignity is stripped. We’ve seen examples where Black homeowners remove personal items before an appraisal to receive a higher valuation. That’s not just about money—it’s about dignity. When people witness that, regardless of background, they recognize it as wrong. That shared recognition is important for building solidarity and driving change.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: Let’s shift to your recent report on racial attitudes.

ANDRE PERRY: We found that interracial interaction is more common than many assume. Eighty-one percent of adults have a coworker or client of a different race. Fifty percent have a friend of a different race. And multiracial families are increasing significantly. We also found that people with more exposure to different racial groups were less likely to discriminate—supporting what we know from contact theory. The big picture is that we are becoming more interconnected, even if policy and rhetoric don’t always reflect that.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: Some might be skeptical—how do we know these responses reflect reality?

ANDRE PERRY: There’s always skepticism, but we saw consistent trends across demographics and political affiliations. And I often ask people: what if these findings are true? What do we do with that? We need to recognize that there’s progress happening, even if it doesn’t always match the narrative we see in media.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: So what should people do with these findings?

ANDRE PERRY: We should translate those everyday experiences of cooperation into policy. There’s often a lag between values and policy. If people recognize that they already cooperate across differences, they’re more likely to support policies that reflect those values.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: What’s one question you’re thinking about right now?

ANDRE PERRY: How can interracial cooperation go viral? We’ve seen how narratives shape behavior. If we can spread compelling stories of cooperation the same way other narratives spread, we can accelerate change. It’s not enough to have the data—we need to communicate it effectively.

TOMÁS JIMÉNEZ: Andre, thank you so much for joining us. It’s been a real pleasure.

ANDRE PERRY: Anytime.

OUTRO: One Question is brought to you by the Institute for Advancing Just Societies and produced by Ethography. Producers Georgia Limcaoco and Nikolas Liepins, with music by Caleb Liu.